jewelfox: A portrait of a foxgryphon with a beak, black fur, magenta hair, fox ears, and a neckband with a large jewel on it. (Default)
[personal profile] jewelfox

It's an enchanting game where you explore a wondrous land ... that has monsters coded as "tribal" and "indigenous" in the way they dress and build dwellings.

You run up and hack them to pieces, then eat them and make their remains into potions and gear.

Don't get me wrong, Zelda games have always had problematic stuff in them. Like the Gerudo. But like, the main "generic enemies" throughout most of the series, the Moblins, are portrayed as fully-sapient professional soldiers. Sometimes silly ones, as in Wind Waker, but soldiers nonetheless, who are part of an occupying army. And who are moral actors capable of making their own choices, like the ones in the original Legend of Zelda who aid Link in secret.

Is no one else bothered by this? ^^;;;; Because it looks like a gorgeous game, but I really can't get past this, and it seems like no one I follow has even noticed. If they talk about the indigenous-coded monsters at all, it's to say how the game lets you kill them in creative ways.

... on the plus side, it did give us shirtless Link.

Date: 2017-03-13 02:46 pm (UTC)
redsixwing: Red-winged angel staring at a distant star. (Default)
From: [personal profile] redsixwing
Yeah, the way the Bokoblins are treated is pretty awful. Like, if someone were making elixirs out of Zoras, I'm pretty sure they'd get panned by the narrative. >.>

They get coded as nonpeople with the whole resurrection thing, too - the "aimless souls" of Ganon's servants are reincarnated over and over, only to be slain again.

This gets particularly interesting where the Yiga clan is involved. They're the Sheikah (and possibly some Hylians, too, given they keep trying to recruit Link) who follow Ganon, and they also get reincarnated. Except, instead of being visible enemies you can spot on the map, they're travelers who hail you down, typically say something unusual, then transform into ninja-like enemies and proceed to try and kill you. They use the same models and faces as everyone else.

I'm interested in seeing how the Gorons get treated, as they've sort of walked the line historically between ally and enemy roles, and they also get some indigenous coding. (I've met one Gerudo. She was like... look out, kid, you're gonna get killed out here. And then left me to it, lol)

On the other side, it was interesting how Link was received in Zora's Domain - all the Hylians thus far have been either disbelieving (you're the hero? lol no he's dead) or excited (You're the hero! I thought you were dead!) and the Zoras...

Well, they're a long-lived species. Which means a lot of them remember you, personally, as someone who promised them the world and then let them down.

I really can't blame them for their hostility.

Date: 2017-03-13 04:34 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] blackswanseer
the "aimless souls" of Ganon's servants are reincarnated over and over, only to be slain again.

Weirdness always seems to ensue when a game tries to tie the respawning mechanism into the plot. I don't know why they didn't just do a time-based respawn without plot embroidery. As is, it's like...what is even going on here?

Zelda has been in a peculiar spot for a while, straddling the line between a more adventurey game - like the first where there was veeeeery little plot - vs having more plot over time. But the combo raises questions that don't necessarily come up if you're more like most Mario games or more like a, thorough rpg. But it's perched in the middle. And then jn turn, the game doesn't really try to address many of the questions.

I hadn't realized the Yiga reincarnated. Hadn't run into the same one more than once yet. That's interesting.

I was hoping for more nuance with the Yiga story. But no, so far they're just another enemy trying to kill you if you run into them.

I've seen some traveling Gorons, but it was pretty low key. They tell you about where they're from, basic stuff like that. Seems similar to what I recall from TP in attitude.

Which means a lot of them remember you, personally, as someone who promised them the world and then let them down.

Interesting - is that covered in one of the recovered memories? Without having gotten any of those yet, I'd gotten more of a mixed impression. Some are happy to se him, some are angry. For those that are angry, the ones I've seen seem to be angry because their princess was lost because the fight with Ganon went badly. And Link, as one of those who lost the fight, is getting blame. Apparently esp. he was personally known to them and the princess. So it's like, hey 'hero', this wouldn't have happened if you'd beat Ganon. Which, you're the hero, so you were supposed to.

Date: 2017-03-13 04:40 pm (UTC)
redsixwing: Red-winged angel staring at a distant star. (Default)
From: [personal profile] redsixwing
I'm pretty sure it was the same Yiga member, anyway. I ran into her in the same place, but she had different lines. (The outcome was the same.)

I've gotten just the one recovered memory, the one in front of the statue. The one that the manta-ray guy points out, reasonably, is extremely convenient for Link?

I got lost did a lot of running around talking to random Zoras before I went into the throne room, and while I didn't keep count, it seemed like the Zoras who were actually happy to see Link were very much in the minority. (Though, the guard who used to swim with him as a child? Adorable. Azorable?)

... and of course Prince Sidon is happy to see you, lol! Should've put that in the first post. It's quite possible that the sense of hostility in Zora's Domain was intended to be counterbalanced by all the ones who are out and about down the river (and up some improbable places), searching for you.
Edited (forgot a thing) Date: 2017-03-13 04:42 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-03-13 09:53 pm (UTC)
redsixwing: Red-winged angel staring at a distant star. (Default)
From: [personal profile] redsixwing
Ohhh dear. D:
I haven't hit that scene yet, but it's good to have the heads up.

Also, I can't disagree. xD; The Sheikah armor's pretty flattering, too. I changed the dye style on mine, because in the default coloration, I keep seeing Link and thinking "Sheikh is over there!!1!" and sadly, no.

Yes, they really do use meta-game knowledge against the player. There's a location in Zora's Domain named after Mikau - who was the Zora guitarist in Majora's Mask. I got all AWWWW about that, because Majora's Mask is a major hit to the feels, and Mikau's arc got me particularly hard.

There's also locations named for Ruto, the Zora princess from Ocarina of Time. (It's worth pointing out that those are in different canonical timelines, and the arguments over which timeline BOTW belongs in are pretty amusing.)

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